Savonne Hagans | Artist

Rodney Veal  0:10 

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Rodney Veal’s Inspired by. I’m Rodney Veal, the host of the podcast, and today I call it Emerging Artist episode, and it’s really super exciting because I met this young man. I can say that because I’m obviously much older at the Society of Artists exhibition group show, and his work is phenomenal. And he, I was like, where has this man been? And so I was like, he’s been here for a bit, but he’s to my eyes. It’s time to say, folks, you need to discover him because he’s super versed in his work. He has a really great backstory to his his technical prowess and his ideas behind his work, and just seems like just a really nice guy. So, welcome to Savonne Hagans.

Savonne Hagans  1:00 

Thank you so much. Thank you. Happy to be here. Happy to be here. Happy to be here.

Rodney Veal  1:04 

Yes, we are thrilled to have you on board. So, a lot of times I’m doing the hot tub time machine, like we say, like let’s go back in time. Like yeah, yeah, yeah. Art has been established, but let’s do it anyway because I’m kind of curious about your background. I’m like, where did this love of art originate from being an artist.

Savonne Hagans  1:22 

I studied like most of my foundations at Stivers School of the Arts. Ah, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. Love that school to death. And from there, like I really got into like the ballpoint pen work in college and through that times.

Rodney Veal  1:36 

Okay, so what college did you go to?

Savonne Hagans  1:37 

I really just found it out through like Sinclair Community College. I placed in first in drawing there when I was there for like the exhibition, and I was there for that small time. Yeah.

Rodney Veal  1:48 

Awesome, awesome, awesome. So you you like you knew from an early age you wanted to be this art guy. Oh yeah. Styvers is not a thing where you just kind of jump in in high school. You know, I know I taught in the dance program. So you were there. Were you there in the seventh grade? Like, did you start? Yeah, yeah, the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk about talk about Styrus. A lot of people don’t know. Who may not know that what Styvers is. Told.

Savonne Hagans  2:10 

It’s really a school of the arts. They have like visual arts. They have theater, classical orchestra as well, creative writing. I was a fine arts kid, so like I was there primarily doing like the foundations and just learning doing like the competition works as like scholastics and everything as well. I loved my teachers, Miss Ririck, Elizabeth

Rodney Veal  2:36 

Woods. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I know. One day you will, Tyler Gwin. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Savonne Hagans  2:46 

And then Ryan McCullough and Tyler Peffley as well. Yeah, yeah.

Rodney Veal  2:51 

Oh my God! Like, what is it like? A lot of people understand. Like, it is kind of an immersive experience. This type of, which is really interesting. Like, we’re here. These like you get to do it all, all the day. Yeah, not like we’re like maybe no. It’s academic plus you really get to get

Savonne Hagans  3:08 

and just really just the adjuncts to really get the kids really just more into like the arts as well to really do like because I did like you know what’s it called computer graphics and everything like that and I really didn’t mold well to that one, or like even like ceramics and stuff. Like printmaking was my thing, and yeah.

Rodney Veal  3:27 

So you got like

Savonne Hagans  3:29 

in that time,

Rodney Veal  3:30 

in that time, yeah. But I, but you know, it is a foundational piece of the work that you do, though. Yeah. Even though you know, I’m always because I’m already I was really curious about it. I that that notion of immersing yourself in all the different art forms, and that was one of the things that Sturvis did really well. Like we did even that for kids of dance, our students of dance. It was like they got to touch it all, and then they kind of said, “Well, I want to go this path. I want to go this way, and so it kind of sets you up for this kind of like place to be, so so to speak, in terms in terms of being an artist and an art maker. So like, what what was going through your head like when you’re thinking about like when you’re graduating from sort of Stivers, like okay, I’ve gotten this. Now what’s next? Like

Savonne Hagans  4:19 

yeah, I was planning to like go out for like different higher colleges and stuff like that, like the University of Chicago and stuff. But then like my parents both ended up getting sick. Like my dad ended up like losing his kidneys at the time, and then like my mom had like an open heart surgery, so I kind of like put that on the back burner to like go to Sinclair and stuff like that. But I’ve still been like doing competitions and stuff, and just really creating my own like body of work and series as well.

Rodney Veal  4:46 

Wow, sorry to hear, but I mean, I totally understand about life. Like,

Savonne Hagans  4:50 

yeah, yeah, you know,

Rodney Veal  4:53 

you know, that’s a real huge factor. You have to make these kind of choices. But I, do you feel like making that? Choice and decision to stay still benefited you in a way, and in many ways. I mean, because I feel like the work is so it’s rooted in a deep understanding of not just materials but ideas.

Savonne Hagans  5:13 

Yeah, I would say like it’s given me time to like really like mold like myself and like my own like body of works, to be honest, I would say the time has like, yeah, I would say like it just really gave me time to create my own like conceptualized like body of work. To be honest, yeah, I feel like it didn’t like hinder me in any type of way, I’ve just really just truly just been doing like art, you know, competitions and everything, and still just really making artwork and everything. Yeah.

Rodney Veal  5:50 

So talking about the competitions, which is kind of interesting to me because it’s like for the type of work that you do, is that the best? Do you think that’s one of the? Do you you know obviously it works, but you’re doing them. Yeah, yeah. Is it a like? Is it one of those things? I because I don’t know as a visual art maker, those kind of competitions. Like so, and our our audience may not understand this. Explain these competitions because this is all about awareness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Savonne Hagans  6:19 

Sometimes it’s like like even like the DSA like competition like it was like 155 to 160 people like who applied and only like what 14 people got in and only like yeah yeah yeah only 22 works yeah yeah odds may not

Rodney Veal  6:38 

be in your favor folks yeah like I did not realize that. Wow.

Savonne Hagans  6:42 

Yeah, yeah, and I got three works in there. Yeah.

Rodney Veal  6:46 

Okay, which why the reason why I got excited. Yeah. I mean, so this competent like a lot of people don’t understand that it is not a easy pathway to sort of getting your work seen, and so you’re because you’re you know you’re you’re obviously taking care of parents, and you know hopefully they’re on the other side, and oh wow they’re

Savonne Hagans  7:09 

fine, yeah.

Rodney Veal  7:10 

Well, but it it seems like it hasn’t it in many way like you said it’s like it hasn’t hampered, but I just I wonder how it’s informed the depth of the work that you’re creating? Like, what is this work a departure from all the things that were foundationally put it into you? Because it feels like you made an evolutionary step. I wouldn’t. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Knows all. Yeah,

Savonne Hagans  7:39 

yeah, yeah. Yeah, I wouldn’t.

I kind of like separate that sometimes because, like, I would say, like Germans and Japanese people are like like my biggest inspires for craftsmanship and everything. So, like, even when we talk about like my pen work, I probably wouldn’t even picked up the pen without Shohei Tomo, which he is like a crazy ballpoint pen illustrator. So, like that’s too like I wouldn’t even thought about picking up the pen honestly without him. So like everything that’s like creative, foundationally wise is like kind of like a side thing from like family and stuff like that as well. Yeah.

Rodney Veal  8:14 

Oh, like so, because because the work had that such that kind of Japanese cultural simplicity, but it has such a complexity.

Savonne Hagans  8:25 

Yeah, it

Rodney Veal  8:25 

made you, it drew you in. And so, talk about this artist’s work because I mean, ball point pen. I did not realize what one could do with a pen. Yeah, yeah. I was like, well, if you could do that with a pen, maybe all these art, every people should explore more. Because I mean, I mean, it is, folks. We’re talking huge scale. The large scale works to me. They’re large scale. So talk about that ballpoint. Like, what was it? Because that artist was using ballpoint.

Savonne Hagans  8:53 

Yeah, I just gave it a try. To be honest, that’s how

Rodney Veal  9:00 

that worked.

Savonne Hagans  9:00 

Yeah. World. Yeah. I’ve just been like working with like pen for like I would probably like 10 to 11 years. I’ve went through like four or five different sets of different pens. I really my main base right now is zebra brands, but going back to like the conceptualization of just like the body of work, like the deepness of it is rooted in, is really truly into like Black history and everything, like with the foundations. Like I, I have like the you know you can copy like the craftsmanship and like, but not like you know as like Shohei Tomo, he would like talk about like stuff with like this government and societal stuff like that, but then it’s like you know me taking my own my own stuff with like even Black history and the history of my own country as well, and like putting that into my own work and stuff like that. Yeah.

Rodney Veal  9:55 

Yeah. So that was that was the depth of it. It was like it was about the for me. I mean, because I work in dance, you know, the the body, and that’s what I that’s what got me, and it was like it was like the the black body, and there was a Brenda Dixon Gottchild wrote a book about the dancing black body, and the fact that you know visual visual representation and one’s own personal history connects you as a person of color informs the work, and it was like full on display. And the crazy part is the photograph in the middle is was my childhood friend. We lived right next door to each other, Robert Parkey. We’re we’re childhood friends. Yeah, and I love that that setup, and I was like, okay, I’m in. This wall kept me intrigued for a long time. Yeah, so talk about this embodiment of Black history and culture. Why that’s important to you as an art maker?

Savonne Hagans  10:55 

Sometimes I believe we need like a revolutionary, like kind of like an art renaissance at this point with our country, with even education as a whole. So like that’s why my work is primarily like conceptualized into like even like the the translation between Japanese like Zen gardens compared to what like I feel like what American Zen gardens would be like the translation between like the rock being like the foundation of peace to where like as like the westernization foundation of peace would be like the death and body parts primarily like even just like black bodies as like their foundation of peace and structure.

Rodney Veal  11:33 

Wow! So this is what he explained to me as we’re standing in front of his arc books. It was like I remember the motor conversation and I just sat there like, okay, this is deeper than I thought. But which is which is really surprising. If you come, I mean, you’ve been at this for 10 to 11 years, which definitely you’re not even 30 yet, are you?

Savonne Hagans  11:56 

No, I’m 33. Yeah, just 30. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Rodney Veal  12:00 

yeah. Oh my God, dude! I mean, come on! Give this guy an exhibition of his own work. I mean, it’s there, it’s there. So, like, is it is because I’m kind of curious because you’re at this stage where it clearly that your work is respected. Like I can tell by other artists, and Tamiko said, “Oh, I said Tamiko, I’m gonna I’m gonna save you on on the show. And she was like, “Yes, like you got allies in your courtroom. So what do you feel like it’s at this stage where your work is? I mean, you got honorable mention, yeah, in the show because it was it was juried it was cured it was juried by someone not with DSA. This is somebody from outside the region.

Savonne Hagans  12:44 

Yeah, yeah.

Rodney Veal  12:45 

That means your work it speaks, bro. It speaks. So what’s next? You had to be on a high that day.

Savonne Hagans  12:52 

It’s like honestly, it just makes me just keep wanting to like push past my limits on as far as like my own like collection of work. Like I truly like have two pieces that I’m like I already I literally bought like the illustration board to make them today, yeah. I love it. So yeah,

Rodney Veal  13:12 

I love it. So are you doing this work on illustration board?

Savonne Hagans  13:14 

Yeah, I do it on thicker like 20 ply. 20 ply. Yeah, yeah, to really hold the.

Rodney Veal  13:20 

Forgot the weight. It’s a yeah. I know what you’re talking about. Yeah,

Savonne Hagans  13:23 

yeah, yeah.

Rodney Veal  13:24 

The illustration part, and because it’s and it’s okay. I have to ask this question: Is it does it kind of suck that Dayton doesn’t have an art supply store?

Savonne Hagans  13:32 

Yeah, because I usually have to like drive out to like the Blick store, like in Columbus. Okay, because it’s like really the only one in Ohio. No, there’s

Rodney Veal  13:39 

one in Cincinnati. I just found it. Oh,

Savonne Hagans  13:40 

I didn’t know that, and that was only

Rodney Veal  13:43 

because I was down in Cincinnati on Saturday, and one of the artists at the exhibition goes, “I go to Blick, that’s over in Clifton. Yeah, so it’s in. I’ll get you the okay, cool, cool, cool. A little closer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little bit longer of a drive. No, it really is. Yeah, super cool. But the illustration board, like, like, have you thought about like this notion? Because you’re getting when I say large scale people, you’re talking large size. That’s about what. What’s the size of this? Like the

Savonne Hagans  14:08 

one pieces at the DSA show were like 20 by 30 each one.

Rodney Veal  14:13 

Those are those those are big.

Savonne Hagans  14:15 

Yeah, like even like the two, the one well that I’m going to do next is like 24 by 36, but like the illustration board is like that I bought is like 32 by 40, so like it could be bigger, but like it just depends on like my space around me. Honestly, at the

Rodney Veal  14:32 

time, yeah, is that the artist vein? Yeah, I need the space to build. Yeah, literally. So, so are you building this work for exhibition to build the body of work? Do you have enough work to kind of? I’m kind of curious about how do you because when you’re at a certain stage and now, as like I said, you have three works at USA. You got someone you can get a bigger champion than Tomiko Stone. Yeah, this would be very. Anyone out there in the Dayton art scene, you need to get Tamiko on your side, and your life will change. And so my question is like, like that, like, are you gonna? Do you show the work over the last, you know, since high school and since Sinclair as an exhibition, or are you only focusing on new work, or is it is the old work not match the new? You know, some people just are like, that was that was a different time.

Savonne Hagans  15:28 

Yeah, see, like that’s like going back to like how like even like I talk about like Japanese people and their craftsmanships and everything. It’s like that was a time where it’s like I’m just like learning like the foundations without identity. So it’s like my newer work is like all of my foundations and everything, and now I can put like full like conceptualization into each piece, so like I can fully go like completely in with all like my knowledge and everything over time.

Rodney Veal  15:57 

I love it. I love it. I think well, what I find fascinating is that, like, do you feel like you didn’t need to go outside of Dayton, Ohio? I’m kind of curious about that because

Savonne Hagans  16:10 

I feel like the even like the strictness and like the training that I’ve had. Like, my dad was like really into like Chinese like movies and stuff like that, so he would be big into like my training and my own progress and stuff like that. So like sometimes like he would tell me like when I’m doing a great job, but then he’ll come in and be like, you know, that’s not that great. You know, you should start over. So I’ll just start over. I love I love a good parent critic, man. No, literally.

Rodney Veal  16:39 

And because, but but it’s but it seems like it’s they seem to be really into this what you’re doing. Do they right know that you know I’m I’m a fan. I I into became a fan. Yeah

Savonne Hagans  16:54 

yeah yeah. So do they understand like where you’re at with like um I really like don’t know to be honest. Like, I feel like as a whole, like they understand. Like, I do like shows. Like, I’ve even worked with like the Ohio Art League and stuff, and gotten to their fall and spring exhibitions a couple times, and everything. So, like, they know, like, understand, like, I’m like seen like artists and everything like that. Understand, like I’m like respected artists and everything, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you know, like I’m like like six two, like you know. So like you better did something with the art. You and

Rodney Veal  17:31 

Bing, you and Bing Davis have something to come.

Savonne Hagans  17:34 

Yeah, literally.

Promo  17:36 

I’m Bonnie Miles, membership coordinator of CET. Thank you for listening to Rodney Veals. Inspired by this podcast is a production of CET and Think TV, two local PBS stations. As PBS stations, the work we do online, on air, and in the community is supported by listeners like you. If you’re enjoying the show and would like to support our work, please consider becoming a member at CETConnect.org or ThinkTV.org. Plus, when you sign up to donate at least $5 a month, you’ll get access to special members-only streaming videos on the PBS app through Passport. Learn more at CETConnect.org or ThinkTV.org.

Savonne Hagans  18:17 

If you’re enjoying this conversation, the art show, also hosted by Rodney Veal is available to stream anytime from anywhere on YouTube or the PBS app.

Rodney Veal  18:25 

And but but the thing is, you also have something called talent.

Savonne Hagans  18:29 

Just it’s

Rodney Veal  18:30 

incredible talent to do something different. Like I am, I and don’t be embarrassed, but I just it was the work is it stopped me in my tracks. I was pulled in, and I couldn’t let it go. I could not let what I had seen. And even talking to you, I’m like, oh yeah, I could see the blackness of the of the and the figure within the blackness. Yeah, texture. There’s a lot of texture to the that as well, and you did talk about like talk to me about that texture, how you achieve that texture, with the

Savonne Hagans  19:07 

yeah. So like for like for the fibers and everything, I used to work for this moving company, and so like we were working and doing like this like one place for like UD science and stuff. I don’t know what they were doing there, but like I was like moving out this like these bags of fiber, and I was just like, man, like I don’t know. I feel like I can use this for something. I don’t know like why. But then like I had it for like a year or two after even just having it, and then like I just came up with the idea of like the how would I portray like America like the Zen Garden form with like just like primarily just like acrylic paint and like it’s just the fiber and everything. But then like I did like research on how kind of even like go past that to like dye the fiber in different colors. So yeah.

Rodney Veal  20:02 

All from packing moving materials.

Savonne Hagans  20:04 

Yeah, and yeah, and I still have like the bag like in the car right now. Like, yeah, it’s a it’s a messy like type of material, so it gets everywhere. So I kind of have it like in the trunk. You know how you have the open space, and then I just keep it there. Just keep it there.

Rodney Veal  20:22 

Just keep it contained. Yeah. You know, there’s there’s an artist who he’s fascinated by that corrugated cardboard that’s inserted in the packaging. It looks like it’s whole, but when you pull it apart, accordion stretches and begin, and applying that the surface textures, and then applying the paint on top of that, and I was like, dude. He said, Yeah, I know. I’m like looking for packages all the time. No, yeah. And then you go on the Amazon, you order big bulky rolls, and he’s into the. I’m like, I’m like, dude, I’m so fascinated by that. And so, have you thought about like other materials? I’m just kind of curious. It’s

Savonne Hagans  21:02 

honestly, I’ve thought about like since I only have like the one huge bag of it. To be honest, I think about just like dyeing it in like different colors and just like primarily because I have like different works that I would like do like mural size or like a wall size. Like once I get to like that like pure level of like you know space, but like, yeah, I would like to do like a like baroque size type of things. Like, if I really had the space to, to be honest, yeah.

Rodney Veal  21:30 

Oh man, oh folks,

Savonne Hagans  21:33 

yeah. I don’t even

Rodney Veal  21:35 

know how to describe that. You need to go to DSA to see us work, do the work, and I think I know we have the capacity to just share your link on social media. I’m gonna get am I gonna get the nod from the my Mike Shea, our producer? Okay, we got to share the link. You need to look at the work, people, people, people. It is stunning. Thank you. And so I got a question about like the future. Like, what do you see? What do you see? I mean, do you see your future staying in this region to make the work, or do you plan on going elsewhere? I mean, because the work is you’re there. I I don’t.

Savonne Hagans  22:12 

Yeah,

Rodney Veal  22:13 

I can’t wait off camera, off off off microphone to say, hey, you need to talk to so and so and so and so and so and so so. I need to do that, yeah. Well, that’s what I love. That’s how much I’m in love with one another. Just let you know. Yeah, I don’t geek out. I geek out, but I geek out very specifically.

Savonne Hagans  22:30 

Got to do something

Rodney Veal  22:32 

for me.

Savonne Hagans  22:32 

No, yeah. I would say like, as far as like the future, I plan to like now. I feel like as an artist, as a whole, like not really just like working off foundations or just drawing little things that I see. It’s just trying to put out. Like now I feel like I have my own body of work, my own style. Like now I can see like me getting outside of the region. Now I like that. I just feel like that all goes back tying to like learning all your foundations without identity. Now it’s like I have learned that, and now I’ve created like this body of work. So like I have enough works to like do a whole like gallery show right now. So like yeah, like even with like photography works that I’ve done and everything. Did you

Rodney Veal  23:16 

do a photography as well? Yeah, yeah. Oh my god. Okay, so you are multi. Yeah, I’ve been working

Savonne Hagans  23:21 

even in like like my own like calligraphy type of spacing as well. Like I’ve taken like Jordan shoes and stuff, and like used them as like printmaking like blocks and stuff like that. That’s my next series in Mike. My as I work,

Rodney Veal  23:38 

I love Mike’s nodding, and I’m like, oh, that is, you’re just you’re you just are in the zone of like like let me try this, let me try that.

Savonne Hagans  23:49 

Yeah, yeah.

Rodney Veal  23:50 

Oh my God, I am in love. I’m just in love with it. I’m in love with his ideas.

Savonne Hagans  23:55 

Like even speaking back on like being Davis, I did like an internship with him before, like in like my teenage years and stuff, and like even with James Pate, because you know they’re like galleries are like together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You need to go those galleries. They are. That’s

Rodney Veal  24:11 

how you discover stuff. Love them both,

Savonne Hagans  24:13 

and like yeah. So like I plan to even like work with like James Pate in the future and everything like that. Like we’re in talks and yeah, yeah everything. Yeah, just really connected as far as like into like the art scene and stuff like that. I

Rodney Veal  24:26 

love it.

So, if you’re because, like I said, a lot of people listen to the podcast, and I’m just kind of, what would you say to someone who may not think that they can do what you’re doing here in the Dayton region? What would you tell them?

Savonne Hagans  24:42 

Just really, just tune out all like the outside world. To be honest, you can create like it’s like being like a body of water. It’s like you can be a body of water, but a body of water is connected to like rivers, streams, and everything like that. So it’s like you can keep. Your ears like to the ground and stuff like that, and still take in exploration and research of the world around you, even if you really don’t have like the resources and everything to get there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do

Rodney Veal  25:12 

you think this region is more conducive to that than other regions? You know, I mean, I mean, does it? There’s something in our. There’s something about our ecosystem that’s just so different than even Cincinnati artist. I think.

Savonne Hagans  25:30 

I feel like dating artist has like the drive and everything like that. Like I feel like even as me myself as a dating artist, I feel like there really isn’t like a blockage of like things that like I can’t get like material wise, so I’ve never really thought about that like that. Like even like like my Japanese soup mike, I can go to like you know Columbus to the Blick store, but I can even like order it online. You know what I mean? So it’s like, and I’m hipping you doing one in

Rodney Veal  25:58 

Cincinnati. Yeah, yeah, super cool. Yeah, yeah, because I and I bought some alcohol inks, or that was like yes, yeah. I’m playing around with some things, but

Savonne Hagans  26:07 

like I would really truly say like you know don’t let your mind or the people around you like make you feel like you can’t get what you need without like a little research, because like I really truly I don’t really like support some brands, so like I’m like really like an eBay person. So like, but eBay and Etsy is like where like you have like these like vintage like art stores and stuff like that. So like I have like my like ears and eyes to the ground to like different like vintage like art brushes out of like horsehair and stuff like that and like different darker like colors of inks and stuff like that, to work on like, like I said, my the calligraphy piece with the Jordans and everything as well.

Rodney Veal  26:47 

Oh my God, just that’s a really cool thing. The research part, you share something in common with James and Bing, but you share it’s something in common that I don’t think a lot of people understand about not just visual artists but artists in general. It is all about the downtime to research. You cannot make a dance without doing some research. I can’t choreograph without doing some like observational research or doing some research into a topic or an idea because otherwise, it’s it’s just not gonna. It’s not gonna resonate. It’s not gonna be satisfying. Yeah. And I get the impression that the process to you is really satisfying.

Savonne Hagans  27:29 

Mm-hmm.

Like as a whole, like even when we talk about like ideas and everything, like we can go into like with like how Rick Rubin was talking about like an idea being like a seed and a germination over time, because like I consider like myself not like a sketchbook artist. I don’t like to like, like I’ll make like a rough sketch of like my work and stuff, and that’s kind of really primarily it. I just want to see like the a rough draft of it, and then like I’ll just think of it over time, like, and like if it’s like important to me, like it’ll stay there. But like you know, as the idea as a whole, but like, yeah, I just feel like, and then like, because like we know, materials and everything are like so expensive, so it’s like you know, I do

Rodney Veal  28:14 

know this. I’m really versed, and I love the fact, folks. That’s why we are always looking at like unconventional materials. It’s like, oh, packing material. Let’s yeah sometimes, and that reclaiming and that reclaiming of materials and repurposing materials is just as satisfying. But making art, no matter what it is-musing, dance, visual, what film-it’s expensive. People, the proposition that we have to how much money we have to put into what we do tells us we we have to be so dedicated to wanting to do it. Yeah, we got it. There’s no other choice, and so I think it’s very important for the the audience to understand that. So when you see these price tags on things, it’s not because we think it’s

Savonne Hagans  29:01 

it

Rodney Veal  29:03 

a lot of times the materials that go into it, even framing a piece,

Savonne Hagans  29:07 

yeah,

Rodney Veal  29:08 

it becomes an expense. Like that’s an expense. Someone’s got to cover it. No, literally. Yeah, and so I think we need to be like, yeah, letting people be aware that you’re in it to win it. Yeah, but it’s also it’s not about getting rich.

Savonne Hagans  29:24 

It’s like sometimes to me, like when I’m even creating like works and everything, sometimes like I’ll put like the price tag on it. But like I know it’s like not like an instant gratification type of thing. So it’s like it needs to be seen in like different places before I could really like, you know, expect almost sell at this time. But like, primarily my basis of art is like, you know, I clock in somewhere else. So it’s like at the same time, right? Sometimes the day

Rodney Veal  29:53 

job pays for. Yeah, no, it’s okay, and that’s okay for the that to be a part of your life this at this. Yeah, but just know, and I think you know this from probably talking even to James because James had a full time job and he shifted over to Mikey Hart, and so Bing Bing was a D educator. Yeah, so there’s going to be a moment of transition. I think your moment’s coming sooner than you think, my mom. Yeah. So I really, really do believe that. I I think this was just a lovely conversation. I’m glad we had. Yeah,

Savonne Hagans  30:24 

same.

Rodney Veal  30:25 

I’m folks. I’m I’m I’m really glad that we’re having conversations with someone about emerging artists. This is a conversation because we need to highlight that folks are out there in our community. They’re coming up to the surface and they’re doing their thing and they’re fantastic and you’re one of them, so thank you so much.